meitachi | SMACKDOWN: original fiction vs. fanfiction

So I hijacked

bookshop's comment threads to talk about Hikago (who thinks a Hikago version of Big Bang, Baby* would be a great idea? I do, I do!) and fanfiction vs. original fiction. Considering that I've been thinking about this for a while--and was actually discussing with

nightengale yesterday too--I thought I'd share. 'Cause you know you're all so interested in my thoughts. :D

*BBB1, BBB2

So this is what I said:

(in my meta post [locked, sry], which also includes stuff about betaing & challenge fic)

I've been thinking for some time on what differentiates good fanfiction from good original fiction. Of course, they share a lot of standard criteria--cohesive, interesting plot; believable characters; strong dialogue; good grammar, etc.--but something good fanfiction has that original fiction doesn't is the ability to extrapolate from canon. Good fanfiction explores underdeveloped characters, examines their dreams and motives, creating a backstory; it writes in the spaces left by canon, explaining unseen causes of effects in canon; it creates a believable future from available facts-- A lot of good fanfiction assumes things, and can leave things unsaid, because they're written on the presumption that the reader is familiar with canon and all it entails.

And

nightengale replied here (also with Ocean's 13 fic! GO READ IT!):

As for fanfic, I firmly believe that many authors take the trick of "extrapolating from canon" to take shortcuts, or let it do their work for them. There is a necessity of developing and rounding the characters in any story by using their previous experience to shape them and give them context. In original fic, you write that backstory and the current story. In fanfic, someone else wrote the backstory.

Too many authors, however, allow the why of the backstory to go unsaid, along with the backstory itself. A glance, a referential phrase, may indicate to two characters (and their readers) the Incident Five Years Ago that neither of them has recovered from, but only if we're told what they're feeling and how Character One bringing up that Incident puts Character Two in a cross mood. If they simply glare, reference the event, and move on without a transparency of emotion, the reader has to not only remember the Incident (whether it was in a published canon or in previous chapters of the original fiction) and also parse it for its significance to a) each character and b) to the relationship between them.

That's too much work to make your readers do, the mark of a careless writer. In fanfic, it reveals a laziness in writing that is probably completely unconscious but still present. It allows readers who know the characters to see their reactions, to understand the emotional significance of the moment, because of work the canon did in teaching readers how to extrapolate the possible reactions of Characters One and Two to Fic Situation A, based on its similarities to Canon Situation B. The writer hasn't done any actual extrapolation in this case - simply set up the scene and allowed the readers to draw their conclusions.

But this isn't a parlor-room reveal, and being obtuse doesn't win you any points unless you're writing surrealism in which case, stop writing fanfic surrealism! If a reader hasn't read the canon - or, in some cases, has simply missed the single episode in which Canon Situation B was contained - then they'll be completely lost.

The writer who relies on their readers knowing the fandom inside and out is the weakest kind of fic writer, in my mind. This is why I've always admired Harukami, whose fanfic doesn't feel like fanfic. Without having seen source, a reader can still understand the emotional exchanges between the characters. The setting and their specific rules of magic might be beyond this canon-less reader's grasp, but the punch of the story won't be.

Good fic, whether original or fanfic, builds its strength on conveying universal emotions. To do that it must make clear enough of the current story and the backstory that the significance of each scene stands alone, independent of a reader's viewing library.

My response:

If an author references an Incident without referring explicitly to it in their fic, and the reader has to actively recall said Incident--I don't think it's any more work than making the reader recall something you wrote in an original story three chapters ago. Fanfic is an extension of canon and while it doesn't excuse lazy writing, I don't think allusions to canon events is lazy--I just think it's a method, a style, that fanfiction is allowed that original fiction may not be.

That certain things go unsaid in fic makes it less bulky--for example, there's no need to tell me in every HP fic that Hermione is one of Harry's best friends. I know that already. They don't have to tell me that why Harry is so angry or hurt or depressed if the fic is set directly post-OotP. I know Sirius died. Of course, a tightly written fic would be able to help the reader understand that Harry is upset over Sirius' death in particular without explicitly stating, for example, "Harry threw things at the wall in a rage; he couldn't believe Sirius was dead. Woe woe, angst angst, etc."

That fanfic "allows readers who know the characters to see their reactions, to understand the emotional significance of the moment, because of work the canon did" isn't a mark of lazy writing to me--it's a mark of skill, that the author can seamlessly meld both canon and their fic writing. That's one thing fanfic writers can do--work off a pre-exsting canon; that's what sets it apart from original fiction for me. It's not just writing whatever the hell you want (no matter how well-written it may be) and subbing in canon names; it's about taking characters who have already been molded and shaped and elaborating on what you've been given.

I don't like unnecessary obtuseness or surrealism in fic (generally) either, and I don't think a writer who depends on their audience knowing the fandom inside and out is going to be very successful either, but expecting your audience to be at least familiar with canon is not a weakness. It just means you're writing fanfiction--that your fic cannot be fully appreciated without the knowledge of canon. Of course, the best writers can work the canon into their fic without making it obvious that it's an info dump (that will probably annoy readers who do know the canon).

But I really feel that if the fic can stand completely on its own, devoid of canon reference, then it's not fanfiction. It's merely good original fiction with familiar names plugged in. I want my fanfic to feel like fanfic. It's one of the reasons I enjoy it so much--because it expands on a canon I love already. :)

But, I mean, if you enjoy fanfic that doesn't feel like fanfic, then it just means our tastes run differently, and that's fine. ♥ I just think good fanfiction has to rely on canon to be, well, fanfiction.

What I said to

bookshop (kind of redundantly):

[...] while they share a lot of basic things like strong, interesting plot, smart dialogue, good grammar, etc.--good fanfiction is different from original fiction in that it draws upon a pre-existing work of canon. And I like that. I like seeing people be able to extrapolate from what they already have in terms of character personalities and known motives and past events, and fill in backstory or create a believable future, whatever.

The problem with a lot "fanfiction" (like Inertia by rageprufrock or Transfiguration by resonant8) is that they take original stories and sub in the names of canon characters. :( Like you said, excellent writing! Just...who are these people you claim to be Harry/Draco/Shindou/Touya? It's possible to make Draco confident & laidback, sure, but you have to work for it. You can't just start off assuming, oh years of stuff happened, and now here he is! This is not how we knew him in canon! If you want to make us buy into this new personality, you have to show us how it changed from the old. Otherwise it's just an OC with his name.

--

And I was gonna put up my comment stats 'cause

ninjatrauma was making a big deal (jeezus, Becky) on her journal, but I figured this post was long enough. Ahaha. Next time.

ETA: WTF BECKY WHY THIS NAME CHANGE. ::KEYBOARDMASH::

--

And one last thing, because I can and was also thinking about this lately: a large portion of my flist are JE fans. Unfortunately, we seem to have missed each other totally, in that when I was interested in Fall 05/early 06, few people on the flist knew or cared what I was babbling on about. Now that my torrid affair with JE ended, there's been an explosion of Akame/Pi/Arashi/Jdrama fans everywhere I look. Even people I never suspected would be interested in pretty swiveling Japanese boys! ;__; I have such awful timing.

Anyway, I kind wrote a short thing reflecting on my music fandoms. Brief & superficial, 'cause I'm lazy, ahaha.

I don't even know. I talk too much. :(

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You just have precocious timing. :D Like me! ~~I promise i will finish that damn thing soon, it's still sitting in an open tab!! Just....Joey's been more important recently. >_>~~

♥ We are connected! You even have your own tag! ::amused::

AHAHAAH I DO OMG. HEEEEE. ♥

~~i am totally tempted to go trawling digimon icon comms to get more icons so every time we do this it can have variety. XD~~

Ahaha. :( I'd have to get more iconspace for that. I have at least one or two other Taito icons I want to use. SO IN LOVE.

*nodnod* Something I've said elsewhere is that, to write well, every writer must generate a complex, in-depth conception of a world and bunch of characters, and then convey an impression of that depth and complexity on the page, using only a handful of bits of the whole complex bundle because all of it never fits. This remains constant, but original fiction authors and fanfic authors have to do the generation different ways.

In original fiction, the author generates it from scratch (or, more precisely, from the cultural group consciousness of world and personality shapes). The author must then remain true to her concept in order to write a good story. In fanfic, the author must take the bits that the original author showed, which are neccessarily incomplete, and generate her own complex and in-depth conception based on those bits. It won't ever be the same one the original author had, because no two people will read the bits in quite the same way, but it must match the bits and make sense of them in order to be good writing.

Personally, I think both ways of generating concepts are equal amounts of work, and take equal skill to do well. Plenty of people on both sides do it crappily instead, more's the pity.

Yes! You're such a wonderful person to meta with--I just suck at it usually (or don't have the attention span for it). I should tell you that I love your meta posts, though I fail at commenting usually.

(Also, what do you make of Fai's backstory now? Gratuitous angst or angst with a purpose? I kind of keyboard mashed at ch155. Must go read 156 now...)

*hearts* Meta is fun.

(I'm mostly voting for gratuitous angst. I mean, we needed some angst to make Fai's happy-happy mask poingant, but the whole Doom and Insanity and Eternal Suffering of Innocent Children are a bit over the top. *wry* Of course it might just be that I want them to hustle on and show us more Ashura-ou. Though I am totally looking forward to watching Fai freak out and Kuro-tan whap some sense back into him. Probably with a growl.)

(Okay, good! 'Cause as cute as they are, I still think the angst is way too gratuitous. I miss happy!Fai. I liked that his smiles had hidden meaning/angst behind them, but I think we're going just a wee bit far, CLAMP. More UST to balance out some of this angst, please?

Oh and more Ashura-ou story would be nice too. Come on, he finally made his grand appearance!)

Oh, man, no kidding; we definitely need some nice UST, here. *grins* Of course, I've managed to get Lys reading TRC, and she's being seduced by the KuroFai vibes. She might even be persuaded to write proper vampire smut, which CLAMP totally weasled out on.

YES VAMPIRE SMUT! Exactly what the ~~TRC fandom~~ world needs. I encourage and urge and all that wonderful stuff. I can be a cheerleader if she needs one! *\o/*

...WHY DO I NEVER LEARN THE LESSON THAT READING YOUR JOURNAL IS DANGEROUS TO MY FREE TIME? WHY?

~~scanz plz.~~

Here you go! (http://www.onemanga.com/Tsubasa_Reservoir_Chronicles)

Otherwise, stoptazmo has downloads...

(deleted comment)

We ended up realizing we weren't really arguing much, haha. I was just saying fanfic needs to rely on fanfic, which she wasn't denying; she was saying that fanfic can't be completely dependent on canon (without the other things that make a good story), which I also agree is true.

I enjoy both types of fic, actually. I love canon-compliant ones because it makes me feel like it could have actually happened (which is why Big Bang Baby is an awesome challenge thing), but I also like stories that are just good stories, even if the only thing familiar about the character is his name and some personality traits. I'm easily pleased, heh.

...I will sit under my everpresent and holy shower, legs crossed and palms pressed together in the classic "Ommmm" position, and nod my head sagely and wisely at you.

(I suspect, though, that Emily and I don't quite like authors requiring us to remember the fandom canon is because we learn our canon from the fanfiction, lazy arses that we are. :O That said, I like all good stories!! *is a good!writing!whore* Show me goodfic for that fandom and I promise you I will spend at least a day with you in it!)

Well, I've done that a lot too--hello, SasuNaru, I'm looking at you. If it weren't for being bored one day and deciding to read fic, I would've never fallen in Naruto fandom (I remember disdaining people for making such a big deal out of it, telling myself that even though I got into GW through 1x2 fandom and not having ever watched canon, I would never be interested in ninjas. Please!). Er, yeah. And lots of other fandoms. So I agree in the sense that I like fic that can be read without understanding canon, and I like excellent writing in general.

But the thing is, good fanfiction can extrapolate from canon. I love that. Not saying that that's the only form of good fanfition, though. And sometimes I like the slashy fic that's like filler to canon. :Dv

SMACKDOWN: original fiction vs. fanfiction

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