meitachi | what is this nebulous idea of "true love"?

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what is this nebulous idea of "true love"?

I believe in true love to the extent that it exists in CLAMP storylines. Otherwise...

This is an interesting article to read:

My advice is this: Settle! That’s right. Don’t worry about passion or intense connection. Don’t nix a guy based on his annoying habit of yelling “Bravo!” in movie theaters. Overlook his halitosis or abysmal sense of aesthetics. Because if you want to have the infrastructure in place to have a family, settling is the way to go. Based on my observations, in fact, settling will probably make you happier in the long run, since many of those who marry with great expectations become more disillusioned with each passing year. (It’s hard to maintain that level of zing when the conversation morphs into discussions about who’s changing the diapers or balancing the checkbook.)

-by Lori Gottlieb, Marry Him!, The Atlantic, March 2008

I think I agree with this article to an extent (it's hard to agree completely when I'm not single and in my 30s, or a single mother). We have a generation of girls raised by Hollywood (and Disney) and society to dream after a happily ever after, or Mr. Right, or The One. What is "true love" exactly? What is "settling"? Maybe there's just being pragmatic, practical. Maybe this is why my mother's told me to find someone now, early, "before 23 because then all the good ones are taken".

Are we all a little too idealistic? Love is passion, but it is more than just passion. Marriage is more than just love, too, it's commitment and compromise and figuring out how to make it work and work together.

Maybe it's how I was raised, but I don't think I could ever "just" date. Dating is about finding someone you'd be happy being with for the rest of your life. I wouldn't date if I didn't see a future, not necessarily one full of romance and dreaminess and perfect connection, but a future, nonetheless.

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IAWTP ♥

Oh I knew you did, bb.

dying, stop being me

cannot

no escape

also changes homepage to iGoogle, omg mei pressure

ahaha ilu. iGoogle makes my life. And the themes in Gmail and oohhh Google. ♥

sobs now i need a new gmail address

I like your choice. :)

:DDD ty~ ♥

Mm, I definitely agree. ♥

And, somewhat unrelated, but I read a book by Lori Gottlieb before ('Stick Figure'). She's a very good writer, and has very good insight! It was pretty surprising to see her name in your post. XD

I hadn't heard of her before that article but I'll try to check out her book when I get a chance! Winter break possibly. :)

AGREED. ♥

And welcome back! :D

Hi! How've you been? :D

I'm okay, still buried in a mountain of work and studying, but I'm fine. :) Nice to see you've been good too!

(deleted comment)

For me, I really think it's so much more important that you're friends with the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, more than maybe be lustful/passionate/whatever. Because the friendship is what lasts. I see passion burning brightly but not for very long.

As a writer who writes predominantly romance (lol get me and my way of upping 'gay fanfic writer'), sometimes I look at what I've written and think, "But - it doesn't happen like that irl." That all consuming feeling of passion and lust - yeah, that exists, but that's not love. That's not what you should base a relationship on, because it's going to fall apart in the long run.

But I disagree with the 'just settle' aspect. You can't overlook serious defects or things like that just for the sake of settling. You can't just decide, well, I'm going to marry you because I'm getting on a bit. Those types of marriage are, in my opinion, far more likely to fail than a marriage based mainly on passion. If there's something that really annoys you in a person, then that annoyance is just going to grow over the years.

Idk what I'm trying to say. I think it's good to have that ideal of 'true love' to wish on, or dream of, but you've got to be practical (or cynical, whichever way you want to see it) and know that really, it doesn't exist, not the way it appears in movies.

That happens to me a lot too, haha. I read what I write and go, huh, this is generally not the way it goes (generally, because life can always surprise you, and there are always exceptions, and some people really do get fairy tale romances that somehow work, because life is like that).

But I think realistically speaking - it's not "just settling". Like this other article (http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/the-good-enough-marriage) says, it's not about settling for just anyone off the streets, anyone you don't hate (because there are lots of people I don't hate). It's about finding someone who may not be your Dream Man or your ideal, but whom you get along with and like and respect and has serious positives that you can work with, and overlook some things you might disagree with. If he has some habit that really, really irritates you, then obviously it's not something you can overlook and put up with for the rest of your life, so maybe you're better "settling" for someone else.

"Settling" has a bad connotation, doesn't it? But basically I agree with you. Be practical, but don't necessarily be cynical.

This idealism is why the divorce rate is so high now..people expect too much, and when they get let down, they just divorce to find another guy.

While that is definitely one of the underlying reasons for the increased divorce rate, I think it has more to do with the fact that it's now more socially acceptable to be divorced.

Part of it's actually to do with the law, which has been amended (in regards to what can be a justifiable reason to divorce) to such an extent that it's ridiculously easy to separate. We're a fickle generation, the latest fad --or in this case, the latest fling-- is often where we go. We can, therefore we do.

The other part is that it's now more socially acceptable to have goals centred around personal fulfillment instead of duty (to get married; to have a family). In which case, I'm glad our generation is expecting more (not to be confused with expecting too much), because a lot of those divorces are people who can break away from being dependent within a relationship that makes them miserable, in the cases of some women, because modern society allows them to be financially independent.

I'm biased, though :P I find the whole concept of marriage a little too sanctified for my tastes.

I agree. It isn't just idealism that's sparking all these divorces nowadays, since people weren't any less idealistic in the past (possibly more so), or any less unhappy once they discovered that reality != the ideals. It's just more okay now to do something about it; it's now socially acceptable to divorce someone you're not happy with, like you said.

I think, however, that sometimes it may be too easy to separate now, and that people don't try hard enough to make relationships work. Even if your partner/spouse is not the perfect man or woman of your dreams doesn't mean you can't still make it work.

But I do admit I come from the perspective of someone who does want marriage, and kids, and family. :)

Oh, yes. I agree with you there. That's the whole bit about being fickle. It's actually a bit worrying that as a demographic, we're not considered to be made of sterner stuff; to be able to tough it out - and I will admit to thinking it's often an accurate assessment. And, again, it goes back to what's socially acceptable now. The consequences of -not- attempting to work out a relationship are no longer quite so devastating. Before, you faced the stigma of being divorced, the shame and what not. Now, the role models of a lot of the younger generations are getting married and splitting up every other week. Sign a few papers, and it's off to the next one.

It's not quite as simple as that, but idealism is probably part of it. People were idealistic in the past too; I think it's just become more socially acceptable to divorce now, so people maybe aren't as careful about marrying and getting themselves into what should be a lifelong commitment. Don't rush, hurry, or be rash, you know?

marriage starts with love and continues with duty. sometimes it doesn't even start with love.

\o/ I win most cynical 17 year old award.

I don't think that's cynical; I think that's just realistic. But duty doesn't automatically mean being miserable for the rest of your life and enduring it for duty's sake. I think it just means that you try harder to stay together and make things work.

Especially for the children!

IAWTC!

:D

Now I kind of want to read or write some fic where a romantic relationship is not all about The One or that perfect fit. There should be something more like, "Well, you get me, and I like you, and I think it could work."

YOU SHOULD WRITE THAT! 8DDDDD And I would definitely read it.

lol i think i wrote smt like that a while ago. but it was a snippet for some challenge .not very good. :D i wanna see where you would take it.

We'll see if I ever have time for writing again. :( I gotta work on the miracle_ss fic too...

I don't think I'm all that idealistic at all. In fact, I might be too much of a realist. Ultimately, dating is supposed to be about finding The One For You. Since I really have no interest whatsoever in marriage and have a horrible fear of mega-long-term commitment, I really don't see the point of me wasting what little free time I have pursuing something I ultimately don't want.

This has been tonight's installment of Why Dimmie's Kind of a Bitch. XP

Sorry to use your comment as a bit of a springboard for a rant, but it always rubs me the wrong way when people speak of marriage/permanent commitment as the end all and be all of non-platonic social interaction.

Dating doesn't have to be about finding The One (and here I most respectfully state that I realize this may be the case for some people, and that is well within their right). Dating can also be about the short-term goal of temporary companionship -- someone to take to the office Christmas party or someone to dance with at the club on a Friday night -- and sometimes it's simply a direct path to easily accessible intimacy without feeling as if you're appealing to an escort service.

I don't mind at all. I'm aware mine is not exactly a popular opinion.

I understand the "temporary companionship" angle, and the...whatever one would call the relationship thing I'm involved in now is super-temporary. This is where by crazy-practical brain gets in the way: while it's definitely fun while it lasts, I think it's kind of, well, not quite pointless, but silly (I don't know what words I want right now) to go on for a while and, when one or both parties are bored or whatever, just walk away.

No, I completely see your point of view. Actually -- and this probably makes me come off as contradictory or hypocritical or something -- I feel the same way, at least in regards to the whole process being a bit, well, seeming as if it's a whole lot of a trouble for a whole lot of nothing.

Only, I also kind of look at it the way I see fandom, or a hobby, if we're generalizing. The amount of time you invest in a particular show, for instance, watching it, wasting money on merchandise, writing and reading fic, making fanvids, metadiscussion...it's all very time-consuming but to an endpoint that one day you just decide you're not much into it anymore and drop it for the next shiny thing. Bit pointless, but man it's fun while it lasts, isn't it? :D I might be comparing apples and oranges, though XD;

I can see what you mean, there, yes.

Well, to each his or her own! I don't think everyone needs to or should date, and marry, or whatever conclusion dating may lead to. Speaking for myself, though, I don't think I'd date casually, because I know what I do want.

And if that's what rocks your personal socks, it's totally groovy.

I honestly think your own background has a huge impact, along with the images we're being fed.

I mean, my parents definitely affect my view on marriage. They have been married for 32 years, with ups and downs. It's not like flames of a burning love would still be scorching them, but they are comfortable together and like each other well enough to forgive certain things that they both know won't change anyway, mainly because they haven't in the past 32 years. And that's okay, because that's life, and the two of them know how to laugh at themselves - together. That's what I hope to find one day.

As for the idealistic bit, I hope the above described arrives with twinkling eyes, a decent sense of humor and similar values to mine. Getting along with kids, cats and my family won't hurt, either :Dv ♥

I absolutely agree: your upbringing will definitely affect how you view marriage and romance. Personally, I don't think I would ever really consider divorce a viable option. I'm not going to rule it out and say I'm against it, no, definitely not, but the way I'm raised it is so much about compromise and sticking it out, and being careful who you're committing yourself to, and once you're committed you stay and try.

But definitely I want to find someone I'll be happy with. Who doesn't? I'm not all about cynicism. Just...practicality and realistic expectations. :) And we all have certain standards. I don't think I could marry someone if my parents hated him, for example.

I feel the same way about divorce. I guess my parents are similar to yours when it comes to this matter :)

But yes, getting along with the respective families does play a big part in my book as well. And I'd feel horrible getting married to someone whose family I'd hate myself. It would almost feel like betrayal on some level, like I wouldn't be accepting him to the fullest.

Randomly: Aziraphale (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/superfrayed/mentalist.jpg), y/n? :D

AHH YES. And he needs his Crowley!

sdkgjeli HAVE YOU SEEN THAT MANIP OF JOHNNY DEPP AS CROWLEY (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=walldepp02zt4.jpg)?

Hm, it says something for my extremely short attention span when that article was tl;dr. Not a good sign. Clearly she should have added decreased mental capacity to the list of changes that happen as you grow old.

But in general, I'd have to say I disagree with the article. Maybe I just have a slightly different definition of settling. I don't want a Mr. Good Enough, but I would gladly take a Mr. Not-Perfect, But I Like Him, and the two are very different in my mind.

I foresee a lot of resentment in a marriage with Mr. Good Enough. And a life that either results in the former Mrs. Good Enough either running off with Mr. Fling #3 or ending up in Cell Block C. Or E. Or 6. Whichever one was in Chicago.

Of course, everything is different when you get to be 40 and unmarried. *steadfastly avoids numbers or doing math*

Also, before 23 because all the good ones are taken? Geez, my mom told me 30, or something. I was trying to ignore all audio input at this point, so i don't remember.

~efio_47, who forgot her password because the password save option has lowered her IQ an irrevocable amount and who also made a little tl;dr of her own...

I think the main point comes down to this:

I don't want a Mr. Good Enough, but I would gladly take a Mr. Not-Perfect, But I Like Him, and the two are very different in my mind.

I agree. I would be okay with the latter; I want the latter. I guess it comes down to terminology and if it means what you want it to mean, or what someone else has defined it to be. Then again "good enough" has always had bad connotations.

Just to add my two cents in, I think it's very possible for your feelings to change in a positive way during a relationship. I really don't agree with the idea that your passion necessarily decreases. But also, I think relationships where you thought there wasn't much there, end up becoming a lot.

Maybe I'm a little cynical on the point of passion, but I think it does fade, generally. For those whose passion don't fade and they manage to maintain a healthy relationship re: everything else - they're just lucky. ::makes face:: Ahh cynicism, idk.

no. I cant agree with that. I could never be happy settling because I would spend each year becoming more and more restless, knowing I had never taken the opportunity to explore my options.

maybe its cuz i'm only 20 and not even out of uni yet, but the idea of just giving up and settling with the next guy that asks me out is just appalling.

I mean I agree that love does not equal marriage- but all that means is I will pick the bigger payoff rather than the love but not that I will settle. Idk. maybe its just that in my mind "settling" = marrying my high school sweetheart who never made anything of himself, just because its easy and he's still in love with me. I just could never do that.

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what is this nebulous idea of "true love"?

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