meitachi | let's not dance this dance

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let's not dance this dance

I am in a bad mood today (being a Liverpool fan = despair, but even if we're relegated I'd rather be a Red than anything else ♥), so here are a few things I might've let pass without comment before but am going to bring up now. (Please don't think my concern is any less sincere just because I also happen to be in a bad mood.)

- Hey, everyone, guess what? Hipster racism and liberal sexism are not cool and not okay!

- This includes you, Lev Grossman, author of The Magicians, which I had to put down after struggling to like the protagonist (but that's a personal issue) and then coming across a passage where a Haitian character is introduced, upon which the narrative promptly spends the next paragraph establishing her as a racist stereotype (that is probably misogynistic too). Possibly unintentionally. Most often unintentionally! But wow it did not help my bad mood.

- Another thing that is not okay: ableist language. Yes, that means casual usage of words like "retarded" and "lame" and "insane" derogatorily. No, it doesn't bother everyone. But it does bother me and I do find it harmful in contributing to the general dismissive attitude people often have towards people with physical or mental disabilities. If you think saying "that's so gay" is harmful language, so is "that's so lame". Obviously I'm not here to police your language; you can say whatever you want. I'm just pointing out why it might be problematic and hurtful and why I might not like talking to you. Fair?

- I keep seeing people spell Yusuf's name "Yusef" and while apparently either one is an acceptable romanization from the Arabic, it still really bothers me because he's clearly labeled "Yusuf" on IMDB. So I'm gonna go with that being the official spelling of his name. Misspelling it and kind of handwaving it because they're both acceptable spellings is kind of like me telling someone my name is "Mei" and spelled that way - but them spelling it "May" because, whatever, they sound the same so it's the same thing, right? It's particularly problematic, I find, because this kind of thing more often than not happens with ethnic non-standard American names. (Please let's not have a conversation about how someone spells your name "Katie" when it's actually "Caty". My complaint is, I admit, mostly about non-Western names in a primaily Western fandom.)

- So the other day I was thinking that because we love Inception (obviously, thus our being in its fandom), the fandom sort of collectively and conveniently overlooks the fact that all mindcrime = mind rape. Yes, it's important to get up in arms about the fact that incepting the idea of love into someone ≠ love, it actually = rape. And absolutely we should call out taking advantage when one person is drunk and the other one isn't, because impaired consent ≠ consent. Sometimes, though, I feel like we're all so cavalier about the rest of the team's non-inception jobs as sort of de facto okay when it's not-- Extraction is just as much a violation of a person's basic human rights; it is equally as harmful and violating as inception or as physical rape.

Maybe this is a complaint better leveled at the movie, which establishes this premise as "okay". So I kind of understand where fandom is coming from, but at the same time that doesn't mean the canon is perfect or problem-free (far from it). I know the movie establishes all extraction (and inception) as a crime and thus a bad thing, but there is so little exploration on the harmful consequences of extraction because all the focus is on the consequences of (Mal's) inception. Maybe we could argue that because the mark is asleep/unconscious, they won't retain memories of extraction but...if we're drawing parallels to real life, that's equivalent to drugging someone and having sex with them while they're unconscious, then removing all physical evidence so when the victim wakes up, they won't have any memories or physical proof.

Which is - well, you know - horribly, horribly creepy and not at all okay and definitely rape.

ETA to clarify: It's not the distinction between extraction or inception - it's the fact that in either, someone is invading your mind without your consent. It is as much rape as invading your body without your consent. So I'm not trying to compare a bad thing to rape and by that trivialize what rape is, I'm saying, in both instances, this is what the definition of rape (assuming a world where mindcrimes could exist) would encompass. /ETA

I mean, I absolutely don't think this means people shouldn't write about rape or murder or horrible things - in fact, I think a deeper exploration of these topics might be nice. It's also not obligatory of anyone (god, I'm one to talk, all I write is cuddling), but it just strikes me that while fandom has problems with inception, they don't seem to have the same problems with extraction. Then again, maybe other people have talked about this topic and I've just been terminally clueless because I suck at fandom. (It's true, I do. All I pay attention to these days is Tom Hardy.)

- I'm just going to go for broke and say here, baldly, that there's a lot of stuff that goes on in Inception fandom that I'm not always okay with. Many things I don't like are just about personal taste (personally, I don't enjoy D/s but YKINMK and that's okay!), but a few things are actually behaviors or actions I find fairly problematic. And maybe I should step up and speak out from now on instead of keeping my silence for the goal of keping this fandom happy, friendly, and drama-free. Which is a great goal! But not so holy a one that important issues or discussions should be sacrificed in order to reach that goal.

...or maybe, honestly, I am just going to be exhausted and engage less. It's also a very real possibility. I cannot promise to be perfect (I am so not perfect), I can only talk about how I care and how I learn and how I fuck up and how sometimes I just want to be selfish and protect myself from endless frustration and rage.

NB: Please keep in mind that if I see anyone try to justify away any of these issues as "okay" by bringing up Moff's Law (At some point during a discussion on a work in pop culture, the probability of someone stating a variation of "Why can't you just enjoy it for what it is?" in order to dismiss critical analysis is high), I will freeze the thread. I am not in the kind of mood where I can handle that kind of discussion. :(

But that does not mean you can't discuss why you think certain trends in fandom are trends, or possible explanations for behavior or interests, etc. Please feel free.

NB 2: I am not trying to guilt anyone for not wanting to dwell on the problems inherent in Inception - there are problems in any work. It's not a crime and it doesn't make you a horrible person if you don't spot them or if you still enjoy the canon or fandom; if we were only allowed to like perfect things, none of us would have anything left to enjoy. Obviously I enjoy Inception and its fandom plenty. I am just...talking about some things I have issues with or have had thoughts about and would appreciate if other people also shared their thoughts. It's an awareness thing, not a demand that everyone jump into a crusade for justice and shame on you if you don't.

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I do have a question (I'm not debating the validity of your opinion on the matter), but what sort of expression do you find that expresses the same thing as "that's so lame/retarded/insane" but isn't offensive?

Even if the current language is problematic (and I understand the standpoint, esp in regards to retarded), it's hard to change if you don't have something to change it to...

I think the first article I linked to addresses that a little bit - often when people say "that's so lame" they really mean "that's so uncool" or "that's really stupid" or "that kind of behavior is some kind of substandard" (which is why it's problematic because it's equating lame with a lower value). Similarly, "that's retarded" could easily be substituted for "that was a really dumb move" or "wow that guy is a total asshole" (depending on the context of each situation, of course) - there are a lot of ways to say what we mean without taking the ableist language shortcut. If we see something unbelievable, maybe we should say, "Holy crap, that's totally unbelievable" instead of "Holy crap, that's insane!"

It's definitely hard to check these things because they have gotten so ingrained into modern language, but I guess I also don't think it hurts us to try? Especially if we know that it is harmful and hurtful to other people.

eta: edited for missing words. go me!

Edited 2010-10-17 23:47 (UTC)

But one can argue that dumb is also albeist language, as it means the inability to speak. (I realise that it's offensive in that context, too, but that's originally how it was used)

And as for insane, it depends on context for me. Sometimes the thing you're remarking on is something outside the realm of what you consider "sane" like...I may say, it's insane, but I started talking to my dad again. (Insane because my dad continually hurts me, but I keep forgiving him)

Edited 2010-10-17 23:53 (UTC)

This is true! I think it's another point of debate for a lot of people (inclding people with disabilities). I don't claim to be an expert on these issues, as I've only grown more aware of ableism and its associated problems recently. So I may not have any definitive answers for you, but there's a lot of great resources on the internet if you just search "ableist language" that might answer some questions you may have.

I guess I would say the thing about "insane" is that it implies that sanity is superior to insanity which, well, seems logical at first, until you start questioning how people/society defines "insane". Does it mean anyone with a mental illness or disability is no longer sane? Because then we're saying people without mental disabilities are inherently superior to people with mental disabilities, which is what ableism is. That only "sane" people are truly "whole" and live a fulfilling worthwhile life, etc etc.

I have both physical and mental limitations myself...I'm not really bothered by casual phrases that no longer really have any side to it. I'm more focused on the stuff that has legal or societal implications, personally. If people say something's batshit nuts, I don't blink...even if I'm considered that way. If people say something's lame, even though I need a cane to walk now, I just shrug. That's me. I don't use retarded, though, in my speech. (I try not to use lame, but that's only in deference to those who I know it bothers.

My question was more derived from a larger issue I have with correction without substitution. I'm all for correction, but chiding without guidance doesn't really help, in my experience. People learn they're wrong, but they're left floundering on how to redirect their behaviour.

I guess it comes down to the fact that not all people are going to agree when something's harmful or not. For instance, not all women find certain actions or words sexist; not all Asians are going to find certain racial slurs necessarily hurtful to them. But if any of them do? I don't think it costs me that much to just be more careful about my language.

Also, I see your point about chiding versus guidance! This was more of a rant post than a 101 post, but I am happy to link to things or talk about my experiences/opinions in the comments.

(Then there's also the slightly problematic issue of the teaching role (http://meloukhia.net/2010/05/the_teaching_role.html), but in this case I don't think applies because I am happy to have discussions/conversations.)

Oh, I certainly agree that we should be more circumspect in our language choices. I don't actually have a problem with changing the way we use language. As both someone in a few of these groups (and as someone who wants to support others) I think we need to have a solution or at least be prepared to discuss solutions.

I also have issues with the teaching thing too...

Consider this :

I don't know a subject, but I want to learn. Someone knows it but, (rightly) considers it not their responsibility to teach it to me, even if they are knowledgeable.

They tell me to look it up.

So, I go onto to google and there are three articles on the subject!

Article one is good, but still problematic.
Article two is hella offensive.
Article three is good and deals with problematic issues brought up in article one.

Now, I'm completely ignorant on the subject. How am I to know that Two is bad. Three is the best. And one is okay, but could use work. I have no way of knowing which source is right. Since I'm ignorant and can't possibly know which is right or wrong based on the zero information I started with.

Moreover, there's the idea that everyone feels the same about everything. There's no way of completely encompassing how an entire group feels about a certain thing. What might be offensive to one member is not to another.

There is my issue with the "go educate yourself" motto. (It's frustrating, because I do agree that it's not someone's responsibility to educate someone else. It's mostly a logistic issue. How can you know what is a good source with such subjective issues?)

Edited 2010-10-18 00:17 (UTC)

haha I also agree with you that the teaching role idea is not perfect! For instance, some people just don't know that they're being ignorant or hurtful and if you don't "teach" them (or at least tell them), they're never going to bother to go educate themselves. And, like you said, if they do try - they still don't know what the good sources are and so on.

There's no perfect way to do this, I think. Still, trying to educate ourselves is better than not, in my opinion, and maybe sometimes that means asking someone questions. And if they're willing to answer - great! But if they don't want to, it's not their obligation either. Honestly, a lot of what I've learned is to just shut up and listen - that way I can hear the varying opinions and really learn from people have the experience and eventually start participating in dialogue myself. At no point do we (anyone) reach a pinnacle of understanding everything; it's a constant learning process for everyone.

Yes to all of this. I will come back later with more coherent thoughts, but for now, just yes, always yes.

More thoughts would be welcome! ♥

Huh, I think it's interesting that you mentioned the sort of hand-waving people do w/ extraction. I think when I read fic, I do that, too - I think, "Oh, they're on a job," and then I continue w/ the story. Mindcrime is a violation of privacy/etc., but... I'm not sure I'd say extraction is akin to having sex w/ someone when the person is unconscious? (I'm sorry for being like, "I'm not getting it." ):) W/ inception, you're forcing an idea on someone and they can't fight against it bc, you know, he/she thinks it's his/her OWN idea, so he/she doesn't really have a choice in it. But extraction is more like a robbery or con. I.e., you're stealing an idea/information. Er, that doesn't make it "less bad," but it's not so much forcing someone to do something...? OH WAIT, extraction is forcing someone up to give up information (and you're setting up the environment so that the person isn't aware of it/can't really resist), so that was a moot point. Huh, yeah, I've never really thought about the repercussions of extraction as much as the repercussions of inception.

I'm back! Like I was just telling Tori, I'm not trying to differentiate between extraction or inception (only commenting on the disparate treatment they've received by the movie and by fandom in terms of attention to their consequences): both extraction and inception are incidents of someone invading your mind without your consent. Which is parallel to someone invading your body without your consent.

So it's not about whether they're there to put x object or y body part into your body, or about what part of your body they're touching or invading without consent - the point is that all of that is rape. So all forms of invading your mind (in this world where that kind of thing is possible) would be rape, whether they're there to steal an idea or to plant one.

I hope that makes sense?

actually now that i think about it, i'm not sure how i feel about the straight-out 'extraction is rape'? only because i know a lot of people have issues with things being equated/compared to rape, but i'm unsure here. i can't really speak from a position of any validity (is this the word?)...

but ia on everything else, you are super articulate :D

It's not the distinction between extraction or inception - it's the fact that in either, someone is invading your mind without your consent. It is as much rape as invading your body without your consent. So I'm not trying to compare a bad thing to rape and by that trivialize what rape is, I'm saying, in both instances, this is what the definition of rape (assuming a world where mindcrimes could exist) would encompass.

Edited 2010-10-18 02:15 (UTC)

yes! okay, i couldn't figure out the base line here, but now i get itt

:D

But I also do agree that people shouldn't compare random bad things to rape just to make it sound, idk, more horrendous. Because, well, rape = rape. That's about it.

You know my thoughts on this. So. Hi. :D

Though, I will admit to occasionally using "retarded," which I'm sure that you've heard me use before. I think I actually used it when I talked to you earlier. :/ It actually bothers me a lot that I will let it slip into conversation, particularly since I do work with the mentally disabled. :( As stated earlier, I need to work on being a better me.

<3 Go you. :3

I used to throw that word around all the time. :( I was reading entries from just a year or so ago on my journal and cringed awfully at some of the dismissive attitudes I had back then. Though it gives me hope about changing for the better! We're all works in progresses.

Thanks for listening to me rant/letting me babble at you (and I enjoy the same from you haha). ♥

This post is chock full of win.

I started cutting ableist language out of my vocab a couple years ago. "Crazy" and "lame" have been the hardest ones for me. I definitely used them a lot. I know many people, including myself, who actually fall under the "crazy" umbrella in terms of having a mental illness. And while I've never personally felt hurt by ableist language, I'm sure some point I've hurt someone, intentionally or not, with my language. I get that there is lots of conversation about using or not using language, but I'm of the belief that it's not that hard to just stop saying things that could potentially be hurtful. Honestly, I'd rather just not hurt someone, than argue about why I can or cannot say a word. Also, I've had this conversation with a lot of people, but removing ableist language opens the doors for us all to 1. think critically about the things we say and who they affect and 2. think of new, cool words!

Oh god. *steps off soapbox* Sorry about the rant.

Yeah, for all that I love Inception fic, the concept is pretty problematic. The first time I saw the movie I was like "you can't just shoot at random bits of subconscious! omg, what's gunna happen?!" And then nothing really came of it. But I still totally think shooting at projections in someone else's mind is probably not healthy. I can definitely see mind crime itself as a form of non-consensual violation. Really, I think it speaks to our society at large (and Nolan) that no one blinked an eye at that aspect. Violating people is pretty par for the course re patriarchy/capitalism. Making people react to issues like that is part of social justice, I think. We're all pretty numb to things that are terrible and not ok. It'd be cool to see all the problematic stuff in Inception touched on by fandom. I totally think it could be done in an awesomely smart way.

Wow, your comment is full of win. Don't apologize for your rant! I enjoy your soapboxing a lot and agree.

I get that there is lots of conversation about using or not using language, but I'm of the belief that it's not that hard to just stop saying things that could potentially be hurtful.

Exactly this! If you know this language is potentially harmful to people you don't want to hurt, why would you argue just for the sake of arguing against changing your language? It's not like it'll cost you anything. At some point it just starts sounding like justification for having used these words in the past; it's okay, so many of us did. We can just stop using them in the future instead of trying to come up with reasons that make our past usage acceptable.

I'll be honest and say it didn't even strike me until recently how invasive all mindcrime was - probably was too swept up the excitement of a heist movie with cool suits and gun fights and faux-philosophy, etc. When I finally thought about it, I realized: someone invading your mind without your consent (whether to steal an idea or plant one) - is there a more applicable definition of rape, honestly? In a world where this could actually happen, it is the equivalent of having someone invade your body without your consent. I'm really pretty appalled at myself for having been so blasé about it before - oh yeah it's fandom, it's just a working premise given to us by the movie, /handwave.

Though I definitely agree I'd love to see this issue (or other issues) touched on by fandom in fanworks in a thoughtful way. It'd be super interesting.

I have been considering writing a fanfic about the violence of mindcrime, but I keep on waffling about it because 1) Am I the most educated person to discuss these issues?, 2) What will it look like if after writing that fic, I just go back to my usual heist hijinks?

I mean, I have thoughts on the issue, but I've always been much better at expressing it through fiction than through meta. But I don't know this time. Should I? Should I wait for someone else to do it?

I don't know.

I sort of used to have that attitude about making any sort of comment or post about ...well, any -ism. Even feminism or racism, despite being female and non-white. I kept thinking: but what do I know? I'm sure more people are better educated about this and can word things better! I'm still learning!

But isn't it true that we're all learning still? And that there is no pinnacle of enlightenment where we suddenly know how to perfectly deal with each of these situations with the perfect language? :\ That is my take on it anyway. Of course we should try to listen and learn before we start blurting things out, but that doesn't mean we should be silent forever, either, for fear that we'll fuck up. We will fuck up. We're human. I think it's more in how receptive we are to learning why we're wrong that matters?

And no one is required to be serious business in fandom all the time! The usual heist hijinks are okay too! I mean - that's part of embracing the canon and fandom we love, despite having acknowledged its problems. I don't think anyone really expects fandom to write only dark and serious things dealing with misogyny and racism and mindrape all the time, even if all of these issues might exist within the source.

Obviously this is all just my opinion so take that with whatever grain of salt you need, haha. I would love if you wrote this fic, personally, and would love to help (or just read! what do I really know) if you wanted. But you shouldn't feel obligated to write this fic either, N. ♥

I have to admit, I have a lot to work on when it comes to using ableist language. It's not really okay for me to point out that using 'that's so gay' in a negative sense isn't cool and then go say things like 'pants-on-head retarded.' It's something I'd like to change about myself.

And man, I feel you about how hard it is to address these issues but not get completely bogged down in them. I have huge, huge problems with so much of the Disney canon and its tendency toward all kind of -isms, but that doesn't change the fact that Disney is my childhood, so picking it apart feels wrong somehow. But I also think it needs to be done to better understand how to improve upon ourselves as people? Ah, I could talk about this forever but I feel like the words never express my opinion well enough. :(

We all have stuff to work on! Anyone who thinks they don't...is probably pretty clueless haha. At least that's my opinion.

Yeah, sometimes it's just really exhausting to talk about these things, but on the other hand maybe because they're in fandoms dear to our hearts that it matters even more that we acknowledge and address the problematic aspects. Like I said, I don't think it should feel like we're obligated to hate these things now, but it's okay to still cherish and enjoy something but at the same time, I guess, being able to have a conversation about what it didn't do right.

I found The Magicians unbearable, both for the reasons you give and for others. I don't understand why it was so popular.

Tell me your other reasons too! I am struggling to keep going in this book when I find the main character rather grating and unlikeable (and there are so many random instances of fail), partly because I want to see what made this so popular...

This is just going to make me wince when I walk onto school grounds tomorrow. All "young adults" use are said words above and some of the people in my classes still aren't over the Inception craze which I guess is kind of ironic. After reading all of this it's like I want to go and erase all of this /stuff/ from my language, but I don't know what words to replace them with now. But ia to all of the above. Enough brain food to chew away at for a while.

Like I said above to

reddwarfer, ablelist language is definitely very difficult to cut out of our vocab considering how ingrained it's gotten into contemporary society vernacular.

The two articles I linked are good starting points though! And just a little c/p from an above comment:

Often when people say "that's so lame" they really mean "that's so uncool" or "that's really stupid" or "that kind of behavior is some kind of substandard" (which is why it's problematic because it's equating lame with a lower value). Similarly, "that's retarded" could easily be substituted for "that was a really dumb move" or "wow that guy is a total asshole" (depending on the context of each situation, of course) - there are a lot of ways to say what we mean without taking the ableist language shortcut. If we see something unbelievable, maybe we should say, "Holy crap, that's totally unbelievable" instead of "Holy crap, that's insane!"

If anything, trying is still better than not, even if we fail sometimes! (I fail more than I'd like. D:)

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Oh hey, that's a really good system! It's way of warning people off certain words without necessarily making it accusatory like "HEY YOU, YOU ARE USING BAD LANGUAGE LIKE A BAD PERSON". Makes it non-personal, which I think can definitely be helpful in these situations where people can end up very defensive.

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I guess the thing about this "red light" system is that it's more apt for a group of friends who trust each other and who are already more familiar with why certain language is frowned upon. Harder to apply to random strangers or friends who don't get what's so wrong with "that's so gay" and will continue saying it even if you yell "red light word" at them...

So much thinky thoughts!!! Thank you for the discussing of the ablelist language! I never realized just how much I did say things like that so I really need to work on that (and on not cussing !_!)

And as for inception, I did feel a lot of trepidation actually, when I went to see the movie for the first time. I felt a hell of a lot of sympathy and wrongness on Fischer's behalf, because of what was being done to him. I felt it most strongly when he was helping and abetting the very people paid to go into his mind and change his entire world view.

On the other hand, I was aware that it was a heist movie and so, in repeated viewings, I just rolled with it. I do know that I really enjoy stories writings that deal with the problematic nature/morality of their profession. *is conflicted*

It was more a rant than a discussion. /o\ I was in a bad mood yesterday, oh dear. But I'm glad it made you pause and think! I was only made aware of ableist issues a few months ago myself and have been trying to work on it throughout this time. It's hard to cut out the language at first, but it gets easier! (Cussing is far more difficult for me to cut out haha.)

I felt bad for Fischer too, but it didn't even hit me until recently (long after watching the movie multiple times and enjoying the heist and suits...) that all mind-crime/any entering of the mind without consent = rape, not just planting an idea. It made me feel pretty speechless to realize that, when I think I am (or I try to be) so ~aware~ of these issues.

I would love more fiis that dealt with the problematci nature of their profession! But, ngl, I still adore the domestic and cuddling and big adventure fics too. And I don't think that's bad. @_@

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Oh man I felt so so ignorant when I first realized how clueless I was about ableism - I hadn't even thought about it before. Hello, my non-disabled privilege. D: But since then I've basically lurked and read a lot and tried to listen to other people's conversations and experiences and learn from that. I've cut out these words from my vocabulary too and am basically trying to learn more and maybe spread awareness?

I figure even if I can't speak on behalf of, well, anyone but myself and certainly not everyone with disabilities, raising some awareness for the problems of ableism is a good thing. (Hopefully done so in a way where I am not disrespecting anyone else with much more personal experience than I do with ableism; I can mostly talk about how I've failed and what I've picked up and why I'm personally choosing and wish other people would choose to change my language. Because really, in the end, it's not the language so much as the attitude that needs to change. Or if the attitude would change, the language would follow.)

I guess for me I can't really find anything more about humiliation and destruction and exertion of power than invading someone else's mind without their consent? Because it's fairly parallel to what physical rape is in our society.

And I absolutely agree - exploration is great! Glamorization is far less great (understatement).

(Oh Liverpool. Liverpool... </3)

Intresting thing is, being a non-native English speaker, I didn't even know what lame actually meant until maybe a few years ago. I had only ever seen it used as 'uncool' or 'dumb'. That's how common it really is :/ And it's a bit of a trap, too, because people often learn new bits of language online and, since one pretty much figures it out from the context, rarely look up the exact definition of a particular word.

Of course that's not a common occurance. This is a viewpoint very much beside the actual point here. And this has only ever happened to me with 'lame' (as far as I'm aware). It's most definitely not an excuse (because it's not hard to pick up a dictionary), and it justifies ableism in absolutely no way. Ignorance is ignorance either way. But sometimes these things come as a surprise.

I've personally always been really sensitive to using 'retarded' as a derogatory term, but I must admit I have never even questioned using 'insane', which makes me feel a little ashamed of myself. (I mean, I sometimes get annoyed when people say (in Finnish) "oh, that thing, it's only done with the left hand", meaning something has been done badly or haphazardly. But that's just being butthurt, not getting offended and put down on a regular basis.)

wow, i always thought lame was used in 'feeble' way, not the 'cripple' way. D: feeble as in, not strong (i'll admit, i'm pretty feeble strength-wise, i can't clench my fists in the morning). as for insane/crazy etc. i think those are so colloquial i'm going to have a tough time stamping those out. i cut out retarded/spastic long ago, but idk, these seem so much more difficult. i'll try, but being absolutely truthful, i think they're still going to come out. (i think this is because i've been saying it since i was very young, 5 even, whereas i picked up retarded/spastic/gay when i was 11 and hanging out with other pre-teens.) thank you for highlighting this. :) i have to ask this though, in the cases that insane and crazy do offend, is it people with mental afflictions like ocd/treatable schizophrenia or people completely unable to function and think (and probably will never be able to)? because i wouldn't consider the former insane/crazy at all. then again, i guess insanity is in the eye of the beholder. people have different definitions of it, and if it offends anyway, i shall do my best to check myself!

i can imagine the family of someone with a mental illness might be offended also.

urgh, sorry for the stream of consciousness there. there's already stuff i want to delete out of possibly causing offense, but i'll leave it untouched; i want to see what you think. :) i'll hide it later if it causes offense.

oh, and i forgot to comment about inception. D;

i haven't read too much inception, but i did come across one in which either eames or arthur kept diving into the other's dreams. and i was thinking, that's absolutely AWFUL. if i was eames/arthur i'd be REALLY fucking pissed, feel really violated. but he wasn't, and neither were any of the commenters and i just didn't get it.

i mean, the mind is... ask anyone if they'd prefer to lose their mind or lose the use of their body, and 98% of them would say body. it's the one thing that nobody else should be able to penetrate, and just. yeah. idg the gungho attitude to it. it's a huge deal.

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let's not dance this dance

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