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another glimpse into my meandering mind: race, identity, kpop, etc.
So I did not realize how racist people got about Victoria because I only surround myself with people who love her. Seriously, how do you not love her? But apparently a lot of Korean kpop fans hate her, including stans of Soshi & other girl groups (mostly guys that I've heard, but that's pure anecdata). And, boy, I gotta tell you, Changtoria antis sure get really racist really fast. (At least Khuntoria antis can't pull that foreigner card.)
I'm just gonna say I ship Victoria/Nichkhun, Victoria/Changmin, Victoria/Minho, hell, Victoria/Yunho, Victoria/Kyuhyun, and anything else that might make you madder. I hope she steals the hearts of all your precious darling oppas. Maybe if I am annoyed enough, it will actually push me to write again and it would just be like 8000 words of glorious Victoria being adorable with f(x) and everyone in SME and the entire China line outside SM as well, AND ALSO FUCKING ALL YOUR OPPAS. Creatively and flexibly.
I believe in an inherent difference between the term racism as it's used in everyday vernacular and as an academic term, but jesus fucking christ, no one ever try to tell me racism doesn't exist between "minorities". But that's also a term that doesn't really apply in the context that Asians aren't exactly the minority population in Asia, are they?
Anyway. Mostly I just wanted to vent about OMG HOW CAN ANYONE NOT LOVE VICTORIA :(((( /biased forever
And yeah, there is absolutely a part of me taking misplaced pride in her being awesome and Chinese, as if somehow our shared ancestry makes some of her awesomeness reflect on me. You wish, Mei. But going back to identity issues, I always do end up taking that extra bit of pride in someone Chinese being particularly amazing. You'd think the identification would be even stronger with someone who's Chinese-American but more oftentimes there is a sense of, rather than pride, someone who's been in my situation and did so much more with it. (*coughPriscillaChancough*) So I end up feeling disappointed in and disgusted with myself rather than happy/proud. I guess it's easier to take pride in someone like Victoria when I know there could never be a comparison. I ought to explore that more.
Speaking of race issues, though from a different angle, I think this is really worth reading in addressing the way Western journalists have been "reporting" about kpop and their disrespect towards it as a topic and failure to do basic due diligence in their research.
As a longtime kpop fan, for me there's always a mixed sense of hilarity and titillation when your fandom gets attention from mainstream or so-called credible Western news sources, because you want to see how "outsiders" react to what you know (and sometimes love) as the sheer batshit - the antis, the ridiculous MVs, the whole industry, the good and the bad. But there is always a sense of reserve or dread too, because of that same outsider portrayal and how they often misunderstand or misinterpret your fandom. And it gets all the worse when you realize it's because they're not even trying. Because they don't even respect you that much. You're just a hilarious Asian dude in a ridiculous suit doing a horse dance. You're just a bunch of screaming girls who love androgynous boys in tight pants. You're just a bunch of mindless boys who like plastic Asian girl groups because they're pretty.
I have literally said before, "Oh good, it's another white man explaining how kpop works to the American masses," to probably the third article in as many months. Each article literally drips with condescension in the way they break it down to their Western audience, because kpop is just that weird, apparently. And even if the author likes it, they have to somehow disclaim that like by first explaining that they understand just how weird it is.
Kpop isn't perfect. There's so much of it I don't listen to, so many parts of the fandom I don't touch, and so many issues I can't even address. (Isn't that true of anything we're into?) But the way the fandom is treated by "outsiders" is an example of something that bothers me, because I see a lot of casual or subconscious racism informing that treatment, which in turns drives its fans to do another thing I hate in fandom (and am also guilty of): getting incredibly defensive of what they like and feeling the need to disclaim everything first, that they know it's problematic, or that they know it's not, like, the Beatles or something, that they need to explain or justify what they like.
And, yes, I really do feel like a lot of it is directed at things women like in particular (see Twilight, FSOG), or maybe it's just that women are socialized to feel that need to defend or justify themselves more. (I know this skirt is short but I'm hot and it's cute and I'm not looking for attention, okay? Ugh, I know I look awful right now and my hair is everywhere but I had a terrible day and I just came from the gym, okay? Don't judge me! I know regency romances are pure fluff and not great literature, but I love them and I swear I read 'real' books too!)
But I digress. Of course kpop fans have other problems too, see above racism re: Victoria as an example. But hell if those people represent me.
I don't remember if I had a point to this. I guess I am mostly expressing my disgruntlement at various things. I'm a real peach of positivity, like, all the time, amirite?
Unrelated: I'm really happy Rafa managed to pull out a five-set win over Djokovic (what a match!) to get to the French Open finals. Ilu Nole but let's make some more history, Rafa. :DDD EIGHTH ROLAND GARROS TITLE, LET'S GO.
I'm just gonna say I ship Victoria/Nichkhun, Victoria/Changmin, Victoria/Minho, hell, Victoria/Yunho, Victoria/Kyuhyun, and anything else that might make you madder. I hope she steals the hearts of all your precious darling oppas. Maybe if I am annoyed enough, it will actually push me to write again and it would just be like 8000 words of glorious Victoria being adorable with f(x) and everyone in SME and the entire China line outside SM as well, AND ALSO FUCKING ALL YOUR OPPAS. Creatively and flexibly.
I believe in an inherent difference between the term racism as it's used in everyday vernacular and as an academic term, but jesus fucking christ, no one ever try to tell me racism doesn't exist between "minorities". But that's also a term that doesn't really apply in the context that Asians aren't exactly the minority population in Asia, are they?
Anyway. Mostly I just wanted to vent about OMG HOW CAN ANYONE NOT LOVE VICTORIA :(((( /biased forever
And yeah, there is absolutely a part of me taking misplaced pride in her being awesome and Chinese, as if somehow our shared ancestry makes some of her awesomeness reflect on me. You wish, Mei. But going back to identity issues, I always do end up taking that extra bit of pride in someone Chinese being particularly amazing. You'd think the identification would be even stronger with someone who's Chinese-American but more oftentimes there is a sense of, rather than pride, someone who's been in my situation and did so much more with it. (*coughPriscillaChancough*) So I end up feeling disappointed in and disgusted with myself rather than happy/proud. I guess it's easier to take pride in someone like Victoria when I know there could never be a comparison. I ought to explore that more.
Speaking of race issues, though from a different angle, I think this is really worth reading in addressing the way Western journalists have been "reporting" about kpop and their disrespect towards it as a topic and failure to do basic due diligence in their research.
As a longtime kpop fan, for me there's always a mixed sense of hilarity and titillation when your fandom gets attention from mainstream or so-called credible Western news sources, because you want to see how "outsiders" react to what you know (and sometimes love) as the sheer batshit - the antis, the ridiculous MVs, the whole industry, the good and the bad. But there is always a sense of reserve or dread too, because of that same outsider portrayal and how they often misunderstand or misinterpret your fandom. And it gets all the worse when you realize it's because they're not even trying. Because they don't even respect you that much. You're just a hilarious Asian dude in a ridiculous suit doing a horse dance. You're just a bunch of screaming girls who love androgynous boys in tight pants. You're just a bunch of mindless boys who like plastic Asian girl groups because they're pretty.
I have literally said before, "Oh good, it's another white man explaining how kpop works to the American masses," to probably the third article in as many months. Each article literally drips with condescension in the way they break it down to their Western audience, because kpop is just that weird, apparently. And even if the author likes it, they have to somehow disclaim that like by first explaining that they understand just how weird it is.
Kpop isn't perfect. There's so much of it I don't listen to, so many parts of the fandom I don't touch, and so many issues I can't even address. (Isn't that true of anything we're into?) But the way the fandom is treated by "outsiders" is an example of something that bothers me, because I see a lot of casual or subconscious racism informing that treatment, which in turns drives its fans to do another thing I hate in fandom (and am also guilty of): getting incredibly defensive of what they like and feeling the need to disclaim everything first, that they know it's problematic, or that they know it's not, like, the Beatles or something, that they need to explain or justify what they like.
And, yes, I really do feel like a lot of it is directed at things women like in particular (see Twilight, FSOG), or maybe it's just that women are socialized to feel that need to defend or justify themselves more. (I know this skirt is short but I'm hot and it's cute and I'm not looking for attention, okay? Ugh, I know I look awful right now and my hair is everywhere but I had a terrible day and I just came from the gym, okay? Don't judge me! I know regency romances are pure fluff and not great literature, but I love them and I swear I read 'real' books too!)
But I digress. Of course kpop fans have other problems too, see above racism re: Victoria as an example. But hell if those people represent me.
I don't remember if I had a point to this. I guess I am mostly expressing my disgruntlement at various things. I'm a real peach of positivity, like, all the time, amirite?
Unrelated: I'm really happy Rafa managed to pull out a five-set win over Djokovic (what a match!) to get to the French Open finals. Ilu Nole but let's make some more history, Rafa. :DDD EIGHTH ROLAND GARROS TITLE, LET'S GO.
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Part of it comes down to the fact that the West is pretty self obsessed and doesn't care to delve into the issues of other cultures.
Oh I believe this; for example, Seth Rogen being genuinely shocked to realize Jay Chou is actually an Asian superstar when they were filming Green Hornet together. Uhh, yeah, there is a huge part of the world that exists outside Western academia/pop culture bubbles? And it's not all bizarre and strange just because it's new to you (general).
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Ha, yes (I had to take a mini break to google Jay Chou and marvel at his hotness again. He was basically the reason I watched Green Hornet /superficial). I suspect there will be more crossover attempts so it will be interesting to see how the media and people in general react to Asian superstars. Hopefully there will be less, 'oh look at this weird Korean music thing!' but that will probably take time. Also if the trend continues, white people will be the ones mostly talking (which is probably my cue, if I've stepped on any toes, just say!).
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In my (limited) experience, things like adoption are still very much considered family issues you don't really talk about, largely in part because of the need to save face to outsiders and project an image of a cohesive family. Adoption (and divorce, to a lesser extent these days) tend to be taboo topics because they imply some sort of failing on the part of the family, deviating from the "norm". Even if they do occur, there is a lot of stigma? Again, totally my limited exposure to it - and obviously my exposure is also skewed in not growing up in the actual Asian cultures but having been "Americanized" to some extent too. And definitely not generalize all Asian cultures as the same and make them interchangeable... Like calling Psy Japanese. Ugh.
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She gave a presentation on the Philippines last week.....................................................
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But Philippines = Asia and Psy = Asian, THEREFORE LOGIC. They were totally paying attention.
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Your thoughts on pride/identification (or lack thereof) with Asian-Asians versus Asian-Americans is super interesting to me! I've always been a little bugged by the white American tendency to conflate the two identities -- probably because I spent so much time living/working/studying in Asia, and some white people are kind of like, "Oh, it is the land of your ancestors, so you shall effortlessly fit in!" and in my head, I'm like, "... EXCUSE ME, DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT TOOK ME TO DEVELOP CONVERSATIONAL BUSINESS PROFICIENCY IN MANDARIN, LET ALONE LEARN THE UNSPOKEN CULTURAL CUES IN DAILY INTERACTION?" and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
You know, some of the other Fulbright Korea kids and I were actually chatting recently about how it's interesting that Psy is the one who blew up Korean pop music on the mainstream stage in the West, rather than the more conventionally sexy boy band crooners -- and that this potentially has something to do with how "haha, funny heavyset Asian dude doing a horse dance!" doesn't threaten white American masculinity the same way, say, "Asian dudes with preternaturally fine bone structure & mad athleticism who make American girls drop their panties" do. I kind of made a mental note going like, "Oh, Mei might find that theory interesting!" but forgot to mention it until I saw this post. |D
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Oooh yes, I've actually had similar conversations about Psy and how/why he made it big in America when none of the other kpop groups/artists trying so hard could. He's nonthreatening. He's like Ken Jeong - short, funny, and enough of a caricature that you don't have to feel bad about the stereotypes you kind of still believe. Hmm. Possibly related to this article about female sexuality I read the other day (http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/06/what-being-editor-in-chief-of-i-playgirl-i-taught-me-about-female-desire/276640/), and how men prefer to think women's sexual desires aren't visually driven.
Oh man, my identity issues with Asian-Asians versus Asian-Americans are boundless! They are absolutely different to me, and I really feel like I'm projecting a fraudulent portrayal of myself depending on who I'm with. Sometimes I feel way too Asian; sometimes I feel way too American. Either way, I feel out of place! Fun. :\
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and how men prefer to think women's sexual desires aren't visually driven.
SO TRUE. This is also why dudes flip out or roll their eyes (probably to cover their internal flip-out) over girls going ga-ga for female gaze fantasies (read: Twilight -- million problems in the text, maybe, but male gaze ain't one of 'em, Korean boy bands, Western boy band equivalents like One Direction, the token pretty boys like Orlando Bloom and Aidan Turner in giant testosterone-driven geek franchises like LoTR, etc. & so forth).
Men feel uncomfortable with being scrutinized too heavily on their visual appeal. In other words, men don't like being treated like (oh, wait for it!) women.
They are absolutely different to me, and I really feel like I'm projecting a fraudulent portrayal of myself depending on who I'm with. Sometimes I feel way too Asian; sometimes I feel way too American. Either way, I feel out of place! Fun. :\
... I totally just made about a million Spock child-of-two-worlds jokes in my head, SORRY NOT SORRY. But in all seriousness, yes, ALL OF THIS. You're a weirdo in America, and you're equally a weirdo in Asia, unless you're deliberately working to pass as Asian-Asian, and that comes with its own can of worms.
I actually periodically freak out and mutter at myself about it while writing my book, because (at least in the manuscript thus far) my Asian-American protagonist is frequently and deliberately undercover as an Asian-Asian alias, and you straight-up cannot put that plot point on the table without hashing out hyphen-identity issues on some level, YES, EVEN IN A VAGUELY CAMPY SPY-FI NOVEL FOR TEENS AND COLLEGE STUDENTS, because apparently I have become that person, oh good god, when did that even happen.
(... uh, sorry to totally derail that last point into my own freakout; I'm waiting on notes from my agent & going slowly insane, CAN YOU TELL. |D )
Also, I hope you punched the OKC douchebag in the face. Metaphorically, I mean. Though OKC is such a ripe face-punching playground, I often wish it were more socially acceptable to do so literally.
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Men feel uncomfortable with being scrutinized too heavily on their visual appeal. In other words, men don't like being treated like (oh, wait for it!) women.
reminds me of the root cause of homophobia, which is stemmed in fear/disgust of being treated by other men as women. I mean, seriously, so many problems in the world rooted in misogyny.
HAHAHA we are all Spock. Spock is all of us and our identity issues. But also allow me to emphatically support your putting these issues into your book, because they are so relevant (and inescapable) and I'd love to see them addressed but also not made to be the whole point of the story. I mean, can't we have issues but still go on adventures and lead interesting lives?! (Men can!) I'm really just not that interested in reading about navel-gazing (as much as I personally do it irl haha), because it's boring.
SO YES. Support both!
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Let me preface this by saying I don't hate Victoria for being with any of the boys..I don't like any girls.... at all. Period. Lol. Not totally true, of course. I listen to girl groups but they don't register on my radar the way boy groups do. That being said ...Victoria is a lovely girl. I admire her tenacity and strength in a country, nevermind an industry, that seems to have it's own set of racism issues.
Are there racism issues among minorities? Lol... talk to Latin American /Hispanics about their culture or Black Americans about theirs. I could tell you stories... I am sure you have heard some or know some of your own.
And for the second part of the post... I had to stop paying attention to "mainstream" reports of kpop because it just made me mad...
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Oh man, I am all over the fandom map. I still have feelings about hockey, TSN, kpop, but I guess kpop's the one that's led to me posting more. I'm not sure what there's to say about the others. I guess because it tends to more closely affect my life in terms of overlap of Chinese artists in Korea or mainstream reports of kpop. Though maybe I could post about how hockey is So Damned White and Asian fans aren't even a large enough subset to merit recognition as a thing, lol.
Hope you've been doing well these days!
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Song Qian ;__; ♥
Also RAFAAAAAAA FUCKING RECORD WOOOOOOO
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Ugh Cath someone hold me down and make me write. I keep going to read TSN fic instead. It's probably ruining my life.